Description
A stop sign is needed for the corner of Wall St and Main St. (in front of Old Dutch Church) for South Bound traffic on Main Street. The visibility is poor and I have had many near misses!
A stop sign is needed for the corner of Wall St and Main St. (in front of Old Dutch Church) for South Bound traffic on Main Street. The visibility is poor and I have had many near misses!
52 Comments
Community Neighbor (Guest)
That's a very simple fix.
Bill C. (Guest)
That is the last thing needed - another Kingston stop sign. Main Street has right of way and Wall St has a stop sign. That is the way most cities and towns work. One right of way, one stop. Exceptions are usually reserved for crossing rural highways where speeds of 40 mph or more are the norm. Kingston is a silly exception. Traffic stops in multiple directions with everyone looking stupidly at everyone else until someone decides to make a move.
BTW... A stop sign doesn't absolve traffic in both directions from looking and exercising a heavy dose of caution.
z (Guest)
doran (Guest)
Snowflake (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
There is a pretty simple solution to this problem.
Many towns with the same types of difficult traffic patterns for drivers and pedestrians, are using innovative, decorative, and functional techniques to improve safety at busy intersections such as this one.
On Main St. headed westbound, there should be a triangular-shaped traffic island, (perhaps with decorative bricks and landscaping) which would, in itself, force motorists continuing straight on Main St. to slow down.
Then, the drivers on Main St. who want to turn right onto Wall St. would have a yield sign, allowing traffic headed north on Wall St. to continue north after having come to a stop at the intersection.
I think the on-the-street-parking areas can also be properly re-evaluated and marked more clearly, in order to make visibility easier for motorists trying to negotiate this intersection.
I believe if the pavement markings were made clearer, as well as proper "zebra stripes" to demarcate the crosswalks, then pedestrians and drivers would have a clearer picture as to what to do when they reach this intersection.
Also, if a "Caution: Yield to Pedestrians in Crosswalk" sign were installed at the triangular traffic island, drivers on Main St. would have to slow down or stop to let people cross anyway.
vadhopper (Registered User)
I think a stop sign is completely appropriate. Traffic needs to slow down in general in the middle of town - and there is no issue with traffic backing up there.
There should also be "stop for pedestrians in crosswalk" signs - all over uptown. It is a state law that most motorists are unaware of. Everyone needs to stop as soon as a pedestrian steps off the curb in a crosswalk.
Dept of Public Works (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
Paul Andrews (Guest)
Linda L (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
ANN (Guest)
Gerald Berke (Registered User)
Absolutely. Totally needed. For pedestrians too. And the road is curved at that point so the traffic going through or taking a right turn is going fast.
It is a different and unexpectedly uncontrolled intersection: coming up Main Street proceeds from a stop light, proceeds to an uncontrolled thru/right turn where a stop sign or a stop light will occur on the next intersection.
Be aware of the Complete Streets policy that was just proposed by work from Cornell Cooperative work and accepted by the Common Council... There will be a sitting committee in place in Kingston where these problems can be addressed.
http://www.kingston-ny.gov/content/120/2336/2344/default.aspx
vadhopper (Registered User)
Gerald Berke (Registered User)
I heard tell of same but I found no record or plan.
Indeed, this town needs a simple walkthrough to fix a whole bunch of little problems that combine to make a mess. There is however the Complete Streets policy and committee and the Ulster County report of improvement to the 587/kingston corridor intersection: an excellent study and report up on the county web site.
vadhopper (Registered User)
Here's that link that Gerald suggested:
http://www.ulstercountyny.gov/planning/uctc/documents/stockade_final.pdf
And the appendices with the accident data
http://www.ulstercountyny.gov/planning/uctc/documents/stockade_appendices.pdf
These studies suggest the complete reveral of both Wall and Main, so they don't make any other suggestions. The reversal completely negates the need for a stop sign, but I still think a temporary stop sign until they implement the results of the study.
ANN (Guest)
UptownResident (Guest)
mrniceguy (Registered User)
Moreover, the crosswalk for pedestrians is not broadly hatched.
I think this is where you can bring it up. I don't know who serves on that committee or where they report on their stuff.
Class: Public Safety/General Government/Audit
Start time: 7:00 PM
Location: City Hall Conf. Room 1
Occurs: This instance occurs on 3/24/2011.
greenstreet (Guest)
vadhopper (Registered User)
We need to rally on this issue. The farmer's market is opening this coming weekend. Let's make some progress. Get a stop sign here.
Any word about progress from the Public Safety Committee Meeting Mr Nice Guy?
billc (Guest)
Gerald Berke (Registered User)
Still, a vote for a stop sign: traffic is far far too fast and unyielding for pedestrians in that heavily visited intersection. Drivers not only zoom up John across Wall but they turn onto Wall with abnormally high speed (see also Albany Ave at Maiden Ln) for what is mistakenly thought to be a right angle intersection... traffic going west on Wall has more of a "merge" experience than ever getting a right of way. But this is something, surely, for the Complete Streets committee... http://www.kingston-ny.gov/content/120/2336/2344/default.aspx
Improving the Pearl/Clinton intersection with a better sequence, would help. Traffic needs to flow more slowly but more smoothly, something the 587 Roundabout will serve. http://www.co.ulster.ny.us/planning/i587.html
vadhopper (Registered User)
@billC
You don't need to count it. There was a traffic study done and it is well documented (links are below). The flow down Main Street is not so heavy to deserve no stop sign. At 5PM (peak traffic time) aferage flow on Main is 350-400. On Wall before Main it is ~300. There should be stop signs in both directions since It is hard to see cars coming down Main from Wall, and it's a pedestrian area.
Community Neighbor (Guest)
vadhopper (Registered User)
@ kingstoncorridor
No, but I do support their goals!
vadhopper (Registered User)
No, but I support what they do!
Jane Bloodgood-Abrams (Guest)
vadhopper (Registered User)
Bill (Guest)
zoey (Guest)
And honestly, there should be stop signs at every single intersection on Wall St, all the way down to the end. Cars fly through there as an alternative to Washington Ave. It's a real drag for the residents.
anonymous (Guest)
anonymous (Guest)
Andrew Champ-Doran (Guest)
The problem here isn't pedestrian traffic. It's the fact that cars come down Main Street uncontrolled to turn right or go straight through on Main, often well over the posted speed limit. Westbound cars on Wall can not see them at all if cars are parked in front of the Catholic Church (Saint Joe's?), a condition that happens quite often. A stop sign is about the best, most cost-effective soloution.
Andrew Champ-Doran
vadhopper (Registered User)
I'm a fan of both a stop sign AND the pedestrian crosswalk signs - and extra broad hatched crosswalk. The crosswalk signs are needed all over uptown. How often I am trying to cross Front Street - and sit there standing in the corss walk waiting for cars to pass. ALL CARS MUST STOP FOR PEDESTRIANS IN THE CROSSWALK - NY State Law.
But here at Main and Wall - a stop sign is needed as well. As Andrew points out, traffic moves far to fast. Recently the light was replaced at Green and Main - and I am very happy about that. Traffic has slowed considerably in front of my house on Green - a residential street with lots of kids.
And to those of you who think there are too many stop signs in Kingston - I can't understand that. This is a pedestrian friendly city. You need to stop at intersections and yield to pedestrians. We do not need to allow cars to drive faster through the center of the city. If that's what you want - there are plenty of places in California that can accomodate your need for speed. Let us have our pedestrian friendly city.
vadhopper (Registered User)
Well, another year, no stop sign. I want to keep this issue alive. I don't know what happened with the proposals to reverse the directions of the streets - seems to have died. There is a simple solution:
Put a stop sign on Main at Wall St and put pedestrian crossing signs on the key crosswalks in uptown.
Please vote to fix this!
vadhopper (Registered User)
Another year, no stop sign. On-going complaints of accidents and near accidents.
Please continue to support this!
ChampDoran (Guest)
Our Alderman there is now Brian Seche. He's a fair and conscientious legislator. Here is his contact information: Second Ward, Brian Seche, (845) 335-5971, 147 North Manor.
Majority Leader Matt Dunn was working on a plan to change traffic patterns up town, and they've since gotten rid of the light at Fair and Main, though I haven't noticed any improvement in our situation there.
As I ran for Alderman last year, I heard a lot of people echo the sentiments of Bill C. above, "That is the last thing needed - another Kingston stop sign" One guy suggested we remove one stop sign for every one we add. Well, then here's my pitch: If you give us the sign, get rid of the Westbound sign on Main at Green, less than a block down. I'll even throw in the stop North on Josephine at Donovan Place as a bonus, if we can get a decent crosswalk painted in. Sound fair? Enforcing parking regulations in front of the church wouldn't hurt, either, even with exemptions for Masses and Funerals.
As DPW said above, all of this has to get legislative action. Send requests to Alderman at Large James Noble (39 Roosevelt Avenue 845-331-4696). He can send it to the proper committee, probably starting with Bill Carey's General Government/Public Safety Committee.
-Andrew Champ-Doran
vadhopper (Registered User)
schupp 99 (Guest)
tired of almost getting hit (Guest)
the view of that corner of main street and wall is often blocked by cars parked in front of the church - both for funerals and also illegally. you cannot see cars coming from main. i have seen pedestrians, who were trying to cross, people from the farmer's market and women with strollers trying to scoot across main and wall because there is no stop sign and someone is barreling down the road.
vadhopper (Registered User)
Schupp99 - I have consulted with traffic engineers and reviewed the traffic studies. The only reason a sign was not officially recommended was because of the intention to reverse the direction of Wall and Fair Street - a process which has stalled. Read all the accounts above! There are many people who see a critical need for a stop sign. The only people who do not want one are people who only drive down Main Street. Pedestrians and motorists that drive down Wall St DO want one.
PLEASE PUT A STOP SIGN THERE!!
vadhopper (Registered User)
Well the new council is going to take their seats shortly, so I thought I would just bring this issue up again and have them readdress it.
PUT A STOP SIGN on Main St at Wall!
Also, put pedestrian right of way signs in the middle of all crosswalks in Uptown.
Still Waiting (Guest)
Or how about ticketing the illegally parked cars in front of the church that are blocking visability during times where there isn't a funeral? Is there some sort of special privilege that the church has or something? Why isn't that happening? If those cars weren't there, at least you could see who was speeding towards you when you are trying to cross at Wall St....while we wait for someone to give us a stop sign.....
Closed schupp99 (Guest)
Reopened guest (Guest)
vadhopper (Registered User)
Jane Bloodgood-Abrams (Guest)
Yes there are a lot of stop signs in Kingston. There are a lot of stop signs in most cities/towns because those areas are highly developed/congested with crosswalks, pedestrians/traffic/parked cars. We are not out on country road here folks. Wherever there is any stretch in Kingston without a stop sign, idiots tear through at excessive speeds. Their need for speed getting around town doesn't trump the right to safety for drivers and pedestrians.
Jac (Guest)
champdoran (Registered User)
For anything to happen, you will need to get the 2nd Ward Alderman to go for the plan. I understand Doug Koop is very responsive to his constituents' needs. Here's his contact info:
Douglas Koop
(845) 706-5053
149 Main Street
ward4@kingston-ny.gov
Best of luck,
Andrew Champ-Doran
vadhopper (Registered User)